{"id":4140,"date":"2023-07-01T13:22:00","date_gmt":"2023-07-01T13:22:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/kalaconsultancy.com\/?p=4140"},"modified":"2026-09-28T22:58:00","modified_gmt":"2026-09-28T22:58:00","slug":"culture-of-collecting-and-sustainability-of-a-collection","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/kalaconsultancy.com\/tr\/culture-of-collecting-and-sustainability-of-a-collection\/","title":{"rendered":"Culture of Collecting and Sustainability of a Collection"},"content":{"rendered":"

Recep Sefer<\/strong> is the representative of a family that has been engaged in the carpet trade for four generations. He is one of those rare people who both continues the carpet trade and attaches importance to its artistic value. We met with him at Orient Carpets for an interview on the culture of collecting, collector identity and sustainability of the collection. Recep Sefer<\/strong>, who understood the distinction between trade and art at an early age and transformed this knowledge into a collection, told us how he became one of the most respected collectors in the world with his eclectic taste. He thinks that being in this business since his childhood is an important factor in making a good collection. He drew attention to the importance of continuing a tradition by making noteworthy suggestions on the current situation of the carpet weaving tradition in Anatolia and how it can be revitalised.<\/big><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Interview by Serra Oru\u00e7<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Photos by Recep Sefer<\/p>\n\n\n\n

How did you start collecting Anatolian rugs?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I have a mania of collecting things, I buy everything. I buy such strange things that most people who see them are surprised. I am interested in anything old. Old things are more beautiful, be it a jacket or a rug. If there was a jacket made in the 1920s by a Greek tailor, I would buy it even if it was not for me, and I would hang it somewhere.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I started collecting stamps at the age of nine like all my friends and their fathers. I got my mother to buy some stamps and we went to a philatelic shop. I started collecting with a stamp tong, a stamp book and 1453 Fatih Sultan Mehmet series stamps.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I have a very eclectic and diversified taste. I collect many different commodities such as books, postcards, stamps, coins, paintings and rugs. Obviously, it is very difficult to manage this passion. It has many burdens such as time or financial burdens. Storing them is a problem. Even sharing them is a problem. You are usually on your own in these matters. I don\u2019t have any friends because who would be friends with me\u2026 this much diversity of interests may bore others.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I grew up surrounded by carpets and kilims. My whole neighbourhood was involved in the carpet trade. My grandfather\u2019s father, my grandfather, my father, we have been in this business for four generations, so it is not a subject I am unfamiliar with. But I have always liked kilims so much more than knotted carpets.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kilims are very difficult to use. Not every Anatolian kilim fits where you want it. This is called odd size in carpet literature. Kilims may not be a convenient commercial commodity but it immediately stands out as a collector\u2019s commodity since there are no standard sizes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Central Anatolia Ni\u011fde Kilim
19th Century, 408×155 cm<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

My first collection was more amateurish, I think my kilim collection has truly developed over the last 15 years. Of course, as I am in this trade, I get to see other collections that impress me a lot when I buy and sell.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

This situation also helps me to develop my taste. Having a trained eye is very important when collecting. Bit by bit, I started to buy better kilims.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Have you established a method or a category when collecting?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Every collection has a model that one creates in one\u2019s mind over time. Buying this and that\u2026 but with a pattern.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

For example, my orientation has so far been the kilims produced in Central Anatolia, Sivas, Konya, Nev\u015fehir, Ni\u011fde, Sivrihisar, Eski\u015fehir as these regions produce very good kilims. I believe that Reyhanl\u0131 kilims should not be in a collection. Of course, there may be those who might not agree, but Reyhanl\u0131 kilims were produced and sold specifically for commercial purposes. Production on demand does not seem original to me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The backbone of any kilim collection is Central Anatolian kilims. This is the case in all good collections. Others remain as decorative elements next to those. Just like making a cake and putting flowers on it. Kilims are my passion, indeed my disease. If a rug collector is a real collector, he will pay any money for a good rug. For me, a good rug is priceless.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You have been in the carpet trade for four generations, being a trader may be in your DNA. When a seller sees a good buyer, he cannot resist the lure of money and wants to sell. How do you manage both at the same time, what is the subtlety of this business?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

It is difficult to collect and trade the same commodity. If you are not careful, you might compete with your customer. This can hinder your trade, anger and offend your customer. The product range in my store is different from the ones in my collection. I\u2019ve always been careful not to have a conflict of interest.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In the same way, I expect to be taken care of when I buy. The duty of the seller is to serve me but if he has a collection, he will not sell the best ones to me, he will keep them for himself.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Do you think the younger generation will produce good collectors?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Collecting is a culture; it is not taught at school. It is acquired through the environment. It is not only the family, but who you grow up with, who you talk to and what you get from them\u2026 All these elements affect the person\u2019s later life. I was lucky, I grew up in Sultanahmet, then we lived in Ma\u00e7ka for years. The people and families around me were always well-established families in Istanbul. I am from Ni\u011fde, but almost all my friends are from Istanbul. From the way you speak to your behaviour, your environment shapes you. I started collecting with the influence of the people around me and their lives.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Central Anatolia Aksaray Kilim
First Half of 19th Century, 374×169 cm<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

It is not easy to make a good collection, it is not easy to make a good collection of anything. You have to be lucky once. It is not something that can only happen through effort. You will want it, you will pursue it, you will struggle, but it will only happen if you are lucky.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

There are very few kilim collectors in the world. The Mccoy Jones collection which was donated to the Fine Arts Museum of San Francisco and is still on display in that museum, is a rare collection, unrivalled. Although there are millions of people who collect stamps and coins, there are very few kilim collections. Rug collecting is very difficult, it requires know-how. My luck is that I come from a family of this profession. I can recognise the age of a rug, I can distinguish the good and bad dyes, I can see if it has been repaired. These are great advantages. You see other collectors that don\u2019t have good collections. They don\u2019t understand rugs and they are often misguided. They are stunned when they realise this.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A kilim is a unique product, it has no equal. It can be better, but it cannot be the same. This uniqueness makes the adventure of collecting exciting. It is not easy to understand why kilims are not valued in today\u2019s world, how can something so unique not be valued?<\/strong>
The biggest problem in collecting is sharing these artefacts and the sustainability of the collection, how do you plan to transfer them?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Collection pieces are personal. They are completely personalised. Their sustainability is not possible. Maybe exhibiting them in a museum can be a temporary solution. When we look at it nowadays, exhibiting in a museum seems to be the right approach, but whether that museum will survive 300 years from now, whether people will show the necessary care, whether carpets will continue to be loved, is all unknown.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Collections should not remain unclaimed. How can this issue be resolved?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The transfer of a collection to other collectors is very common in Europe. You can buy a collector\u2019s property under two unfortunate circumstances, either when the owner needs money or when he is dead. The last thing a person sells is his collection. Both situations are sad. However, when another collector buys those artefacts and continues the collection, it\u2019s a good thing. The collection now comes to life under the patronage of someone else and the adventure of the artefact continues with the person it reaches. Collectors are the guardians of history. They take something and pass it on to the next generation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Do you have any plans to exhibit your kilims?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I dream of a museum in Bor or Ni\u011fde. First a book will have to be made, then we will think about the museums. On the other hand, I am also worried that even in museums today, artefacts are sometimes not well preserved. We do not know how museums will keep up with the rapid changes in the world. In addition, political and social developments also bring uncertainties. Are there any museums left in Ukraine? The war destroyed everything. We cannot foresee what the conditions will be like in one hundred or two hundred years. It is necessary to have a comprehensive thinking.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Western Central Anatolia Afyon
18th Century, 420×80 cm<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Kilim weaving in Anatolia is not as common as it used to be. What do you think about the effect of a no longer produced commodity on collecting? How can we collect something that no longer exists?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Today, weaving is almost extinct in Anatolia, but the tradition continues with small efforts. Someone who starts collecting today will collect whatever is newly produced and buy as much as he finds. Everything in the world is getting old, in 200 years it will be a 200-year-old rug.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We are in the age of technology; we don\u2019t know which new techniques this age will give birth to. There may be no such thing as yarn dyeing anymore, they will reflect colours with light, they will make digital rugs. The originality of this century will be shaped in its own conditions. What will be left 200 years from now will be different in that period and will reflect today.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We could expect Turks to have more knowledge. Although many merchants trade in rugs, they are not necessarily interested in the value of antiques or collecting. Why are most collectors in Europe or America? To what do you attribute the fact that this awareness is mostly outside of Tu\u0308rkiye?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

There are many factors. Firstly, financial conditions are very critical at this point. If a man needs to make a living, he sells his rug. If he does not sell it, he cannot buy a new one, and this time he faces the problem of how to support his family. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

The second reason may be social. The best collectors in the world in every field come from England. Unlike our society, collecting is very valuable there. In Tu\u0308rkiye, on the other hand, collecting is not valued, only its commercial value is recognised. The only thing that the society sees as valuable is money, they see saving money in the bank as a collection.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Central Anatolia Ankara Elmada\u011f
Pre 1800
180×86 cm<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Third is the family\u2019s view of collecting. The perception of worthlessness in society extends to the family. The family does not want it, children usually reproach the collector father. They criticise him, wishing he had bought an apartment instead of those rugs. He feels uncomfortable because he spends money on rugs. His wife keeps track of where he spent the money, it is difficult to hide a rug. A man who collects stamps may put them in his pocket and no one may notice. However, a man who collects a commodity that he cannot hide must be accountable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Will new generations in Tu\u0308rkiye want to continue this tradition? How can weaving be made attractive?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

It is very important to keep culture alive. Italians are a pioneer nation in keeping their culture alive. Although they produce very important brands in clothing, the upper income group still prefer clothes sewn by traditional tailors, thus protecting their culture. We need to do the same for weaving. If a seed is planted, the rest will come by itself.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Large systems that are difficult to manage are artificial. A target-orientated and dynamic structure should be created. Workshop programmes that are widespread abroad can be taken as a model. Trainers and materials should be provided for the workshops. Participants should be attracted to this field at an early age, so that they can aspire to make it a profession. Paying a fee to the instructors and trainees encourages participation. Thanks to these workshops, new people will grow up, and among these participants there will be enthusiasts who really want to give their heart to it. If we can encourage young people, if we can throw that seed into them, its energy will grow in itself. Then it will mean that we will have done our part.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\n\n\n

Source:<\/strong> ALIVE: \u0130H\u0130B’s Magazine of Anatolian Rugs and Kilims, January 2023, pp. 36\u201341.<\/strong><\/p>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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